apple trees

Just bought 2 apple trees - a bramley and a braeburn to plant on my allotment. Real spur of the moment - staring at me in Aldi saying 'Buy me'. No idea what to do . How close together do I plant them? Believe the bramley needs the braeburn to pollinate-well it says so on the packet. Dig a hole and put them in? Staking? Feeding? Edge of the allotment? I have an edge plot anyway so they wouldn't spread on to anybody else's plot. Help please.

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Permalink Reply by Colin Robinson on February 12, 2011 at 23:14

Really depends on the rootstock but Bramley will make a big tree whatever stock it's on. It also depends on how you intend to train them. If grown as cordons they can be spaced much closer than bush types. I have seven fruit trees in the garden and the average spacing is about 12 foot apart but the big cooker (unknown variety) is on its own and about 20 feet from its nearest neighbour.

If they are bare-rooted (which they most likely are) you should get them into a bucket of water or at least heeled-in to the ground before the roots dry out.

To plant them dig a hole bigger than the root spread and put some compost and a sprinkle of bone meal in the bottom. Drive in a stake BEFORE you plant the tree then arrange the tree and roots close to the stake and back-fill with the soil you dug out. Try and work it so you plant up to the original soil level. You should notice a kink in the trunk. This is where the tree was grafted on to the rootstock and should always be above the soil.

And happy fruiting.

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Permalink Reply by Sue Gollop on February 13, 2011 at 9:42

Thanks Colin-very clear advice. Does a Bramley have a big spreading habit? A Braeburn for that matter? Or can they be kept under control? Can't really do a cordon type of training on my site. Do they grow quickly? You can tell I know nothing.

Colin Robinson said:

Really depends on the rootstock but Bramley will make a big tree whatever stock it's on. It also depends on how you intend to train them. If grown as cordons they can be spaced much closer than bush types. I have seven fruit trees in the garden and the average spacing is about 12 foot apart but the big cooker (unknown variety) is on its own and about 20 feet from its nearest neighbour.

If they are bare-rooted (which they most likely are) you should get them into a bucket of water or at least heeled-in to the ground before the roots dry out.

To plant them dig a hole bigger than the root spread and put some compost and a sprinkle of bone meal in the bottom. Drive in a stake BEFORE you plant the tree then arrange the tree and roots close to the stake and back-fill with the soil you dug out. Try and work it so you plant up to the original soil level. You should notice a kink in the trunk. This is where the tree was grafted on to the rootstock and should always be above the soil.

And happy fruiting.

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Permalink Reply by Colin Robinson on February 13, 2011 at 23:03

Sue, the growth really depends on the rootstock and the vigour of the type grafted on to it. The bramley will be a big tree...eventually. You should decide what shape you want to make them and prune accordingly. The first year they will be mainly putting down roots but will start to spread from year two. So many things can have an effect on the growth rate that it's really impossible to predict without knowing all the variables. The best thing you can do is put them in the ground then wait and see.

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Permalink Reply by Sue Gollop on February 13, 2011 at 23:33

sounds like a good philosophy for life really! Thanks Colin. And after all that it rained and rained today-so they are both in a big bucket of water until I can get on the soil

Colin Robinson said:

Sue, the growth really depends on the rootstock and the vigour of the type grafted on to it. The bramley will be a big tree...eventually. You should decide what shape you want to make them and prune accordingly. The first year they will be mainly putting down roots but will start to spread from year two. So many things can have an effect on the growth rate that it's really impossible to predict without knowing all the variables. The best thing you can do is put them in the ground then wait and see.

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Permalink Reply by Patrick Wiebe on February 14, 2011 at 15:15

You want to think about shading, so it's best to place them on the northern edge of your plot.

My guess is both will end up being about the same size in the end, and will depend on the rootstock. According to this discussion, Aldi uses mostly mm106 or m26 rootstock:

http://chat.allotment.org.uk/index.php?topic=51561.0;topicseen

If this is true, the difference between mm106 and m26 is not so great, and your tree will probably grow to about 8-12ft (or can be kept smaller with pruning), and should be spaced a minimum of 9-10ft apart, but a little more might be better. If you have m26 rootstock, the tree will need staking. Many people with mm106 rootstock report long term staking is unnecessary, but you probably at least want a sturdy cane for the first year or two.

It will be a number of years before the trees are full sized, and in the meantime probably bear fruit. If you think you really only want one fruit tree, you could plant them much closer (3-4ft), with the intention of removing your least favourite after a while. Then they would take up less space in the garden now, and you could buy another later. It should be at least 4-5 years before you have to remove one.

Fruit trees are very heavy feeders, and will make the ground under them nutrient poor. It will be difficult to grow many things near them, so plan on dedicating that part of the plot mostly to them.

I feed my fruit trees with nitrogen fixing black alder trees planted nearby (about 6ft). You could plant 1 alder between your 2 apple trees. The roots co-mingle, and the fruit trees get the nitrogen they need from them. The apple trees also need some compost or other organic material. Some commercial organic growers in the Netherlands do this with black alders too. The alder tree will grow much faster and larger than the apple trees, so you will need to cut it back regularly and aggressively. Alder trees don't mind heavy pruning. Otherwise, you'll need to feed the apple trees regularly.

You need two apples to cross-pollinate each other, but if there are any other apple trees nearby, that should work too. Apple trees do have flowering periods, so you need to make sure the pollination partners are blooming at the same time.

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Shirley on February 14, 2011 at 18:42

Don't forget Bramley is a triploid - and as Braeburn hails from NZ it is wickedly late in flowering !

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Permalink Reply by Patrick Wiebe on February 14, 2011 at 20:31

Stephen Shirley said:

Don't forget Bramley is a triploid - and as Braeburn hails from NZ it is wickedly late in flowering !

Ah, I didn't know either of these things! Then the Bramley needs two pollination partners, so even if it uses the Braeburn it will need at least one other some place nearby. If you remove the Braeburn it will need at least two other nearby trees for pollination!

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Shirley on February 14, 2011 at 20:37

Braeburn is so late it is virtually useless as a pollinator for anyhting else. It is of course self fertile but here in the UK will only actually do something in the warmest areas - so is effectivley pointless.

As a triploid Bramley actually only needs one variety to pollinate it - but if the pollinating variety needs a pollinator the Bramley will not return the favour as its pollen is sterile - so if the variety pollinating the Bramley is self sterile it will indeed need a variety to pollinate it.

Does that make sense?

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Permalink Reply by Debbie on February 14, 2011 at 20:44

Aldi? I wonder if there's any in my local one. Must go tomorrow. Thanks for sharing.

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Permalink Reply by Patrick Wiebe on February 14, 2011 at 20:49

Stephen Shirley said:

so if the variety pollinating the Bramley is self sterile it will indeed need a variety to pollinate it.

I think you mean not self sterile...

But this is all interesting and sort of goes back to what I suggested before. You might want to plant them closer together, and plan to remove one in the next few years and replace it with something else. Then they will take less space in the garden.